And I agree with her. Jordan Jensen is a comedian and Kareem Rahma is the host of Subway Takes, a show where guests share there takes, and they had, what I thought, was a revealing conversation about the difference between believers and followers. This is the transcript of their brief conversation with my thoughts sprinkled in.
Kareem Rahma: So what’s your take?
Jordan Jensen: I don’t think people are actually religious.
My Take:
I don’t think that is what Jordan is saying. I think people are religious but lack convictions. I think she is in lockstep with Jesus when called out the religious people of his day, in Matthew 23:27-28 he says,
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.”
I think people are religious. Religiousness the problem. It’s mans way to reach God. It’s look good, look acceptable but don’t cause a fuss. If you are a Christian, you are called to make a fuss.
Kareem Rahma: A hundred percent disagree.
Jordan Jensen: I think the people that are religious are the fundamentals that are blowing up and banging down doors. Those people actually believe it, but the, If I believed in God, would I let people live their lives? Oh, my bull****. I quit eating sugar. I’ve told every single one of my friends about it to try and help them get off sugar if I thought they were gonna. Burn in hell. I would be shaking them awake in the middle of the night and being like, accept Jesus into your life.
My Take:
Jordan is saying she believes the only “true believers” are extreme believers. I don’t believe in extremism but I do believe in being extreme, as in passionate conviction, to live our lives for Christ. The reason I don’t believe in practicing extremism is because Jesus didn’t practice it.
Yes, Jesus flipped over a table (that’s extreme) but he didn’t go to temple every day and flip over tables (that’s extremism) .
Jesus was extreme in how He loved people. He didn’t lead with, “You’re going to hell!!” but he sure knew how to work the idea of eternal separation from God into a parable such the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats and the Parable of the 10 Virgins and even the Parable of the Talents
Believers should be extreme in their convictions, extreme in prayer, extreme in love and truth. People who preach on street corners, hold signs and share Jesus with others are extreme. Extremists may act on their convictions but they don’t do it out of love for God or others.
Muslim extremists are promised automatic forgiveness, 72 virgins and eternal bliss. They are doing what they are doing for themselves not for Allah.
Christian Extremists, on the other hand, are, I believe, are acting out of self righteousness. They are doing it out of hatred of others more so than their love for God.
Peter was told to put down his sword in the Garden. All of the 12 disciples, but one, were killed for their faith. That’s extreme. They laid down their lives for their beliefs, not attacked others. Jesus offer the most extreme act of all by dying on the cross for the sins of the world.
You don’t have to be a Christian extremist to be a passionate believer, but a passionate believer will alway, consistently, share and live out the message of the gospel.
Kareem Rahma: Please. Okay, so you’re gonna say no one’s being extreme enough because…
Jordan Jensen: they don’t believe it. They don’t buy it. If I thought that if you died, you would go to hell forever in a horrible place with. Satan doing to your a** or whatever. That’d be the first thing I said to you. I’d be like, how’s it going? Have you, are you religious yet?
Kareem Rahma: I don’t know.
Jordan Jensen: What do you mean you don’t know? People talk about keto.
People talk about so many things all the time. If you thought that there was a God and there was a heaven and hell, people would not shut the f*** up about it.
My Take:
She’s right. Think about all the things you talk about with your friends. The movies you’ve seen, the restaurant you’ve eaten at. I tell my students all the time, “If I look at your social media feed, I can tell what you love”.
Like I said before, I don’t think we have to tell people we love or strangers they are going to hell every time we see them, but I do think we should be conscience and be willing to put ourselves out there and be willing to risk our relationships by lovingly speaking truth to others to not just avoid hell, but to focus on the beauty of Jesus.
God has built within us the knowing of right and wrong and to fear punishment or judgement from others and from God. It’s why it’s perfectly normal to feel guilt and shame when we do something wrong. It’s perfectly normal to want to be forgiven something you’ve done. It’s why humanity cries out to God when they feel like their lives are out of control.
Kareem Rahma: Right? They would really be trying to convert you into a pious person.
Jordan Jensen: My aunt. She is religious.
Kareem Rahma: What has she done?
Jordan Jensen: Text. To me every day,
Kareem Rahma: please, please, to remind you,
Jordan Jensen: please accept Jesus.
Kareem Rahma: So the people that come knock on the door and they say
Jordan Jensen: the fanatics, the the people who we deem crazy,
Kareem Rahma: those are religious people.
Jordan Jensen: These motherfu***** being like, “I’m a Christian, but gay, I love gays.” No, you don’t get to make a caveat. You don’t get to believe there’s a dude in the sky orchestrating. It’s so delusional.
It’s crazy.
Kareem Rahma: So you think that in order to be religious you have to be essentially a fundamentalist?
Jordan Jensen: You have to be one of the people on the train that are like, like crazy yelling at people.
My Take:
So Jordan’s Aunt is probably a lovely person who loves her niece. She texts her every day to invite her to know Christ and if Jordan comes to Christ, it will likely be because of her aunts persistence.
Now, the other side of this is that a strong witness can drive people away. Jordan says that the only real believer are extremists. I would not call her aunt an extremist, but I would say she is extreme.
Stephe was a bold witness to the religious people of his day. They stoned him because of the things he preached.
Peter got up on the day of Pentecost and preached and 3,000 people were added to the church.
The difference was both timing and the power of the Holy Spirit.
Timing
Telling someone they are going to hell if they do not accept Jesus is not a presentation of the Gospel, i is warning. The gospel, the good news, is about why Jesus came, why did He live, why did He die, why did he raise from the dead and why did he do all this for you and for me. You can’t present all of that in an elevator going to the next floor but you can sow a seed for God to water.
The Holy Spirit
The power of the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus promised would come, told His disciples to wait in Jerusalem until the Spirit has come,
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. Acts 1:8
It is also this same Holy Spirit who convicts others of sin, not us,
When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment John 16:8
We cannot make anyone accept Jesus but we can be faithful and persistent, like Jordan’s aunt, in preaching (speaking, sharing, not yelling) the gospel,
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. Romans 1:16
People who trust Jesus out of fear may not follow Him for very long. Perfect love casts out fear and it is a perfect God we share with others. I want people to fall more in love with God because of what he did for them rather than because they are fearful of hell, but hell is definitely part of the equation for those who would resist Christ or openly slander him because to refuse God is to accept the alternative.
As believers we are told to let out light shine and let our good deeds point to Jesus. Feeding the poor, visiting prisoners, clothing the naked were never meant to show extreme faith, that’s just how Believers should live.
Consider the mother of one of the slain college student in Idaho who, when given a chance to speak to the Bryan Kohberger, who killed her daughter, forgave him because that is what Christ would do.
You don’t have to be a Christian Extremist to live boldly for Christ, but we should live our Christian lives to the extreme.
Kareem Rahma: What about a person that’s like, I go to church every Sunday.
Jordan Jensen: Thank you. F*** you.
Kareem Rahma: What about the Jewish guys that don’t do the thing on on Friday?
Jordan Jensen: None of the Hacidics, none of those people actually believe it.
Kareem Rahma: So no electricity is not enough for you?
Jordan Jensen: No. You. Just because you obey these laws, that’s like me obeying the law that I don’t, you know, vape on the train or whatever doesn’t mean I believe in it.
My Take:
Jordan nails it again. Going to church. Keeping the law. Being a nice person is not enough. The law cannot save us, if we break one of the laws we’ve broken all of them, Jesus rebukes the religious leaders of his day for keeping the law but not loving others.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.Matthew 23:23
We can say we go to church but if we do not love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength and love our neighbor as ourselves, we are sinning, which literally means missing the mark God has set for us.
Kareem Rahma: So does this drive you nuts?
Jordan Jensen: It drives me nuts.
Kareem Rahma: So, you’re just looking at people and you’re like, liar, liar.
Jordan Jensen: I had sex with a guy who’s like a dedicated Muslim, and I was like, nobody f**** me who believes in a law. No way. This heathen with lesbian mothers.
Kareem Rahma: He was like, I’m Muslim, and you were like, no you’re not.
Jordan Jensen: No way. You’re not Muslim. You just like the. Rugs or whatever. The vibe. The vibe is great. To be a part of a tribe is great, but it’s, they don’t actually believe in The doctrine.
Kareem Rahma: You celebrate Halloween.
Jordan Jensen: I love Halloween.
My Take:
Jordan calls it and not just for this muslim man. So many people love the vibe of Jesus but want nothing to do with his word or obedience. People love church because of the music and the programs but resist the preaching of he gospel. People want the vibe, not the truth.
People want to not just belong, they want to feel like they belong to the right tribe, the winning tribe, the cool tribe, but they do not believe the doctrines, the basic foundations of the the scripture and what it means to follow Jesus.
So thank you Jordan for your hot take. You spoke so much more truth than you know. For Jordan and Kareem, God loves you but because sin we are separated from God, but Jesus came to bridge that divide with his death on the cross for our sins and his resurrections so we could know God and have an new life with Him. Do you believe this?
Then accept Christ, it is always an open invitation given to you by the Holy Spirit. And yes, should you refuse this invitation, and enter eternity without Christ, you will be judged not on good or bad deeds, but on whether you knew Christ as your Savior. I pray you come to know Him.
To those of you who are believers, the world, Jensen Jordan and others like here, are waiting to see believers, you and me, live out our faith to the extreme so they can know that we believe what we believe is not just true but real.
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