In episode #326 of the Youth Ministry of Motion podcast, host Paul Turner welcomes Cicely Corry, the Editorial Director at Barna, to discuss valuable insights from recent Barna studies.
They explore Gen Z’s unique challenges, their priorities, how they perceive authenticity, and the importance of spiritual practices.
Cicely shares practical advice for youth pastors on how to translate data into impactful ministry strategies, foster in-person relationships, and support authentic self-expression among young people.
Paul Turner: As you can see, or at least for those that are listening and watching via YouTube, I am old. And that means I’ve probably been reading Barna books for a very long time. And the church has been using Barna and so forth for a lot of years. But go ahead and tell us real quick, before we get into everything, kind of tell us a little bit about your role there at Barna.
Cicely Corry: Absolutely. I am the editorial director at Barna and that’s a fancy way of saying that I help our storytellers, our writers, our editors, translate numbers into stories that make sense to leaders, to pastors, to everyday Christians.
And it is a beautiful responsibility that I really enjoy. Barna has been around for 40 years now. This is our 40th year this year. And so this research is really about, we like to say, Helping leaders to understand the times and know what to do.
And that’s really the heart of every research report that you have read. It’s the heart of every editorial piece that we put out. We really want to make things easy to understand, practical, relatable, but also giving truth, giving actionable steps. And I’m glad to be a part of the work.
Paul Turner: I love the fact that you’re a translator. You’re turning numbers into story. You’re, turning data into a narrative that guys like me, who are very right brained, who failed math several times in school, enjoy.
I love all those data but sometimes I’m like “What meaneth this? What am I supposed to do with this? I don’t know.” Right. You’re not alone. That’s right. So we’re thankful that you have that role and that responsibility because, now it’s very helpful to people like myself and others who are listening and watching.
Paul Turner: Let me jump into the data we have today. We’re talking today about the five key takeaways from this new Barna study that has come out and the first stat I have is
Finding #1
Nearly two thirds, 62 percent of Gen Z young adults, ages 18 to 24, feel held back from authentically expressing themselves nearly twice the rate of Gen Z teens ages 13 and 17.
Paul Turner: Now here are my questions, what does held back mean and who exactly is holding them back?
Cicely Corry: We’ll start there. And this is a biggie because authenticity is crucial to Gen Z’s self identity, but we also know some of the uncertainties and insecurities that we all have experienced in early adulthood can really, really challenge this.
And so we took it a step further and asked them, “what is holding you back?” And 51 percent of Gen Z answer myself.
And so we have many young people who are still trying to figure out who they are. And this to me tells me that seeing a young person’s potential and helping them figure out the things that they are good at, figuring out who God sees them as, those are all very important things because we can’t assume that it’s external factors that are causing Gen Z to doubt themselves and not feel like they can 100 percent be their true authentic selves.
And so we need to lean into that and say, okay, what is it that you’re going through? And inside the internal work that needs to be done and how can I help you.
I think teachers can probably even relate to this as well as like we all know when we see a student and we’re like, man that kid’s got potential or or man that young person’s really got got got something going for themselves And a lot of times it shows up as them being the prankster or not participating at all because they don’t know what to do.
And so it’s up to us as leaders to really pull these things out of young people to empower them and to help them recognize the things. That are really good on the inside of them that they may be afraid to actually show because they wonder like am I gonna look dumb? Is it gonna be accepted? Is it gonna be right?
And I think also helping them to understand that it’s okay to be wrong. So many times even as an adult I keep my mouth shut because I don’t know how, if what I’m going to say is gonna, is gonna land well, right?
Which is interesting because now I’m on a podcast, but it’s one of those things where we all have these self doubts.
And I think the best thing that a youth pastor that’s hearing this data, that 62 percent of Gen Z young adults, feel held back from being their true selves, I think we help them to see their true selves so that they feel more comfortable in that and know that it’s okay to show that and share that with other people.
Paul Turner: And that leads into the second part of this is question, practical steps. In other words, what does the youth pastor, do within a youth meeting, a Sunday school class, a small group, that says, “Hey, we want you to express yourselves? And are there any limitations to that?
Because I know there’s some teenagers who do not want to be squashed at all. They want to be free reign. They want to be out there. So help me, I got kids that need to express themselves and maybe there’s kids expressing themselves too much.
How do we navigate that and how do we help kids find their authentic selves within the text of a context of a small group or a youth meeting?
Cicely Corry: Yeah, I think the first thing, the first step to helping a student express themselves well is to observe and to pay attention in smaller moments where the spotlight is not on them.
A lot of times we can assume the personality of a young person. We can assume the gifts and talents of a young person. But it’s better when we observe how they act and then also ask questions before we put them in a role that they may not necessarily be comfortable in. I’m a creative at heart and I’m one of those folks that believes that everybody has a creative bone in their body, even those who don’t think that they do.
And so that’s another way of helping young people to express themselves. I mean, you can find an activity where there can be different expressions of one thing, you know, maybe you have some that would write, some that would sing, some that would act, some that, you know, things of that sort. You just really have to be intentional in whatever you do.
Don’t just go halfway into it. The more important thing is that if you can’t lean all the way into it, don’t do it at all because it’s another thing about Gen Z, they definitely want to build relationships, but they want those relationships to matter.
Lean into them and ask those questions, understand their interests. Also, here’s the thing, praying for them and asking God to help you to help them and not leaning on our own understanding of what we think might be right. I was one of those students, I’m an introvert by nature.
And one thing that I tell, tell young people all the time is that God is funny and that he often calls you to do things that are totally against your personality and totally against what you would naturally want to do. And so I tell them, no matter how many times I have to get up to teach you all, I’m nervous.
You know, I share my own vulnerabilities and things that I may be struggling with. So they say, okay, well. If Miss Cicely is going through that, then, or is experiencing some of that, maybe then I’m not totally crazy by that being my experience as well. Letting them know that it’s a safe place for them to fully be themselves and to fully share or not share, and they won’t be judged either way.
That’s what’s most important, I think.
Paul Turner: And I like what you said about going all in on it, that there’s no halfway to it. I’m a fan of student leadership. I’m a fan of giving responsibility and saying, let’s go with it. And there’s no judgment. There’s no failure.
And some things that I see youth pastors do is they’ll take something away too quick. They’ll say, oh, here’s something now I’m gonna take it away from you. Let’s, let’s work it out. Let’sdo it enough times to figure out whether you like it or don’t like it, or if you’re good at it or not good at it.
You don’t know if you’re good at it yet, so work your way through it and I’ll work with you in the process.
Finding #2
Gen Z prioritizes happiness, financial stability, and good mental health over traditional, traditional life goals like marriage, children.
And the question I would have there is, how should youth pastors respond to this when it comes to the gospel and discipleship, which does not promise a smooth life?
Cicely Corry: Well, I mean, we’re living in the moment of the influencer pastor, the influencer Christian, you know, social media paints a picture that can make the Christian life and the Christian walk seem glamorous and without struggle. And so I would challenge leaders to, you know, talk about the hard stories in the Bible. Uh, Job is an obvious one, uh, but there’s, um, Jephthah and his daughter. That’s a hard story. Paul and all of his imprisonments, Joseph, Naomi, and all the loss that she experienced you know, the Bible is filled with grief. But it’s also filled with joy in spite of grief.
And I think it’s important to talk about suffering before I worked at Barna. I worked for Billy Graham’s ministry. And one of the biggest questions that we always had was why does God allow suffering all over the world?
People would ask us that question. And it is important for young people to understand that suffering exists and they’re going to go through it at some point. And so this idea of going after what makes me happy, well, happy happiness is an emotion and it’s, it’s fleeting, right? But we know that joy comes from the Lord.
And so we have to lean more into those things. Talk about how we are to be in spite of what happens in our lives. I think that’s really when we can draw closer to God. Another thing though, I would say is that leaders, leaders can be honest about their own struggles, their own suffering. You know, every Sunday you may not feel like teaching, but you teach anyway, you show up anyway, you give it your all anyway.
Everything is not going to be this feel good type of thing. And, and so if Gen Z is expecting that everywhere they go, they’re going to be in for a rude awakening. And the way that we prepare that is by opening our lives to share some of those tough moments with them, but also opening scripture to talk about a lot of the tough moments that God himself put within his word to show us that I am.
You know, in the midst of all of these tough things that you’re going to go through.
Paul Turner: Do you see, some portion of Gen Z embracing discipleship? Do you see a portion that are saying, “I’m buying into this” and saying, “We understand life is tough.”
Cause I think a lot of youth pastors, myself included, sometimes that we watch TikTok videos and we’re watching young people, Gen Z and otherwise, who can’t handle a three hour work days and we’re like “Oh my gosh, how are we going to get them there?”
I had a young person. I know then they listened to some of the, my kids listen to my podcast. So I’m not going to mention names, but I will say this. We are signing, signing cards, signing, just sign your name to cards for people who work in a hospital. And I had a young man. High school age say, “Oh, it feels like homework.”
Yeah. Buddy, you’re going to be signing things your whole life, like Mortgages. And I know some of those things are not generational. Some of those things are just being teenagers.
Every teenager since Moses has complained about things being hard or hard work or things like that. Do you see a portion of Gen Z really embracing discipleship and saying, yeah, this is hard. We like this, this is good. This is okay.
Cicely Corry: Well, I’ll say this, Gen Z is very much spiritually open, meaning that they are open to spiritual things.
And I think that is a way for us to embrace that and say, okay, this is a starting point for conversations. And so even when you run into. Hard moments where young people are, you know, being resistant or being difficult or maybe not receiving what you’re giving them, or at least it seems that way, I would say to keep at it, but to also ask questions.
Why are you responding in that way? Why? What is it about this that makes you not like it? You know, is it or, or what’s keeping you from reading the Bible? What’s keeping you from understanding this passage that we, that we just went, went through. I think the more that you can seek to understand the young people that you’re encountering, the more they will feel like, ok, Mrs. Lee does care my youth leader does care. My youth pastor does care.
And I think that’s really all that you can, well, not all that you can do, but that’s a big part of a big component, right? The relationship building, the listening, um, and then a little bit of nudging. Right? Like we would all be nowhere if we didn’t have a nudge from somebody, God or otherwise, you know?
Don’t be afraid to be a little tough sometimes and to, and to challenge them sometimes, but have hope in that there are Gen Z who are interested in learning about Jesus, they really are. And we have data that backs that up.
And so I would say to ask the spiritual questions, ask the everyday questions, ask the questions, but be ready to give some good answers, too.
Because the questions won’t stop once you start asking them, you know that’s right.
Paul Turner: That’s right. I appreciate it so much, too. And I’m sure there’s a lot of people that are watching and listening who are thankful. I think there’s, uh, youth, a lot of youth pastors, um, are reluctant in some ways, I should say some are reluctant to be tougher.
There’s some that are a little tough, but then there are some that are like way too tough. Like, slow down, but there are those who are saying, Look, if I’m too tough, then these kids are all gonna leave.
What I found is, it’s not the tougher I am, but when I get to the point about something, I find that it draws them in a little bit that they go, oh, he’s serious about this. I appreciate you saying that a little bit of toughness can go a long way.
Cicely Corry: And also don’t be so tough on yourself either. You know, God will fill in the gap where, where we’re missing the mark in reaching young people. Absolutely. We want to give it our best and we want to take it seriously. We want to be prayerful about it. We want to be diligent about it.
But also know that it’s the Holy Spirit that changes the hearts of people. And so if you’re taking the step to say, okay, God, I’m all in on this that you’re calling me to do know that God is then going to say, okay, I’m all in on, on being with you as you do it. And so where we let God can fill that gap and we teach that same lesson to our students, right?
Paul Turner: I think that’s fantastic. Let’s go ahead and move.
Finding #3
Over half of Gen Z strongly agree that in person relationships are more valuable than digital relationships, 54%. And another three in 10. Somewhat agree. So then my question will be, does this change how a youth pastor uses digital resources or social media for connecting? And what’s the hack in this stat that youth pastors should tap into?
Cicely Corry: I wish I could give you a hack, but what I will say is that Gen Z recognizes The value of in person relationships. Absolutely. That’s what the data tells us, but it does not undermine their desire, you know, to stay digitally connected.
It doesn’t mean that they’re going to give up digital altogether. So I think it’s less about doing more or less of the other. To me, the data is reminding us not to omit one or the other. And so try more of a both and approach if you’re using, um, digital. You know, tools for connection and things of that sort do what digital does.
Digital is good for convenience. It’s good for bite size. It’s good for check ins. It’s good for follow ups, uh, in terms of like messages, reminders, things of that sort. All of that is great for, for digital connection. What is not so good for though is going a little bit deeper. And so still have your lock ins still have your Bible studies still have your fun outings still have, you know, the one off here and there, uh, one on one or small group meetings that you’re having with your, your young people in person, because that is important.
So there are pros and there, there are benefits to both. And I think that. It’s not about just throwing out everything that you’ve got planned with your digital strategy. It’s about, okay, how can I take my current digital strategy and then also make an in person strategy that complements it well. And I think then you’re really setting yourself up for success.
Paul Turner: No question. And I think that’s so important because I feel like there’s a lot of youth pastors, even myself included sometimes where you sense and feel like students don’t want to be together. That my only option is digital, that if I’m not a social media person as a youth pastor, or if I’m not a digitally inclined in some things, then I’m really losing.
In some way I feel that I’m not really meeting kids where they are doing things like that and you saying that in person is still very much valuable to them and I think that’s going to encourage a lot of youth workers who are in person people, they’re not necessarily digital people They’re like, hey, I love just to get together and still go to taco bell with kids and do those type of things
What you said about, finding the best of both worlds is a relief for a lot of people.
Cicely Corry: Yeah, it’s okay to be an in person person, right? If you’re an in person leader, be an in person leader, but find someone who is a digital savvy leader to help you where you lack. And I think then you can really excel in the best of both worlds. There’s nothing like someone who’s not all that tech savvy or not knowing how to really navigate a digital spaces.
And so then you wonder why young people won’t engage in those spaces. And it could be that you’re approaching those spaces is not quite hitting the mark.
Paul Turner: So we all have work to do. Let’s move on to the
Finding #4
Nearly three in five Gen Z, 57 percent agree that while facts can be known in science, moral and religious questions depend on individual beliefs.
Where then does the Bible fit in and how can youth pastors do a better job of establishing scripture as the standard for Christian belief and practice?
Cicely Corry: They’ve got to be able to understand what they’re reading. So I think that is incredibly important and the way that this in in in a way that a teacher might You can give them an outline Give them certain steps To how they can go from reading a scripture and it’s just words to reading a scripture and it’s God speaking to them. Use a step by step process, help them to see how you study scripture.
You can choose or ask them how, you know, if you, it’s one thing to say, who read their Bible this week? And maybe a few hands go up and then you say, well, what did you read? And they may or may not be, they may have read their Bible, but they may not be able to tell you in return what they actually got from that.
And so by understanding first how students are actually approaching scripture, I think that’s good, but make it practical for them. Give them a step by step guide. I mean, Jesus himself gave, you know, the, the Lord’s prayer so that we could understand how to pray. These are the things that you are to cover in your prayers.
And so, I think that in the same way, we say this is a good starting point for how you can begin to really dig into scripture. Another thing, I think, is to help them to understand different parts of the Bible. And so, you know, don’t just start in Genesis. You know, don’t just start in revelation, please.
Please don’t start and Revelation, you know, don’t start at the beginning. Don’t start at the end. Or maybe you do, but it starts to explain different parts of the, of the Bible so that a student knows, you know, what they’re walking into. Psalms is a good place to help, to have young people start. The book of James is a good place.
Proverbs is a good place. You know, so maybe if you just challenge them, hey, I want you to read five Proverbs, five verses of Proverbs a day and, or a week. Start small and then challenge them, increase it more and more. But more than anything, I would say to give them a guide, help them to at least start.
Paul Turner: Such good advice. I love the outline and the guide, it’s something to consider. We’re going through First Kings right now with our students, and so trying to give it to them in very small doses. First Kings is not, you know, the end all be all of anything, but you know what, its got Solomon in there, and he’s he’s a pretty good character to talk about.
He did a thing or two and I’m trying to help them understand wisdom and when we get to Proverbs and to other things that he wrote, they’ll know the backstory of this guy who wrote this book.
And so, but having an outline, I think is such a great piece of advice. Let move to the last finding.
Finding #5
Regardless of their religious beliefs, nearly two in three Gen Z, 64 percent report having prayed to God within the past week.
Prayer is a great start. What are other spiritual disciplines is this generation open to and what else can we encourage them to do? How can we you know, lay some breadcrumbs out to get them to the other disciplines? How can we how can we do that a better job of connecting these things?
Cicely Corry: This is a good place to end because to learn that a good amount of Gen Z are saying that they have prayed in the past week, I think that’s a glimmer of hope. These aren’t just Christian Gen Z, this is all Gen Z.
I think it also speaks to their curiosity about, again, about faith practices, about spiritual matters. And so we know that Gen Z may actually be interested in traditional spiritual traditions, even if they aren’t outright saying, I am a Christian. I believe in God, things of that sort. 37 percent say that they have read the Bible, in the past week, 36 percent say they have attended a church service in the past week.
And so I think this is a reminder to leaders to make these, the moments that they do have with, with their young people, meaningful, make them mean something, give them things to do after they leave the room, you know, and it could be something simple as passing out names and having them devote a prayer moment sometime during their week for that one student.
One thing that I like to do is, so that a student knows that I’m challenging myself as well, and I’m willing to walk alongside them, I say, hey, I’m setting a reminder right now to pray tomorrow at 12 p.m. You want to do that too? And sometimes, you know, they’ll, they’ll, they’ll kind of give me, give me some trouble, but a lot of times they’ll be happy to do it.
And what I’ve learned is that more often than not, when I follow up with them the next week, they say, yeah, I prayed. And it was a really cool moment or, or they say, I set the reminder to pray, but I was distracted and then now I have something else that I can help them with. And so I do think that for those that are coming to church, for those who are showing interest to, you know, make those moments more meaningful.
And then for those who, you know, we’re trying to get them interested in coming to church, this might be contrary to probably believe, I don’t know, but I would say instead of inviting them to your church first, invite them to your home or invite them to lunch or invite them to, I don’t know, smoothies, boba.
I love boba. So I, you know, I love a good boba meetup, but, uh, or even, even one step further, ask them how you can show up in their lives. Hey, I know you play football. Can I come to one of your games? And I understand that a pastor, maybe a youth pastor or leader may be listening to that and thinking, man, I got a whole lot of kids. I can’t do that for all of them. Well, divide and conquer.
You, you, you know, you probably got a team. You probably got some seniors who are willing or some college students who are willing. To divide and conquer and form those relationships. Because I think that the way that we’re going to get Gen Z into church, the way that we’re going to get them into Bible study, the way that we’re going to get them into scripture is going to start with more meaningful relationships is going to start with showing, extending our hands out and saying, I care about you.
You matter. I see you. You’re a value. And God sees you, he, he values you as well, and helping to like make that, build that bridge into the church, but we’ve got to be willing to, you know, extend that arm first and to extend it in a way that we’re not making assumptions about the young people in our lives.
And we’re not, um, you know, refusing to extend grace where if we, if we really look at it, when we were their age, we had some grace that was extended our way as well. And so that would be my, my advice there.
Paul Turner: That’s right. I think we’re all, if you’re listening or watching, you’re, you’re listening and watching by grace.
God has shown you and me, me especially, a tremendous amount of grace for me to be here and to, and to be with Miss Cicely.
Miss Cicely, thank you so much. Fantastic tips. I love all of them. Youth pastors, if you’re not writing these down, I got an idea. Maybe it’s time we have a boba and Bible study.
Cicely Corry:There we go. I love it. I see the flyer already. Do you see it? Popping bubbles all around.
Closing
Let the youth pastors know the youth and the pastors to their listening. Let them know What is what is Barna have maybe that they might be interested in?
Maybe do you have a newsletter or something that they could tap into website all that kind of good stuff? Yeah, Barna comm is our website in in the corner of that. You’ll see an icon icon that says trends That’s a new thing that Barna is doing where we’re releasing, uh, our, our research in more bite sized, easy to digest type of format.
And I think those are good. We’ve even got a new series. We’re going to be starting pretty soon called stats for sermons, where we’re using certain data from our reports and we’re putting them on the website and you’ll have slides and things of that sort that you can download. And so it was just a wealth of stuff on the website, barna.com. And then also following, of course, at Barna Group, you know, um, our social media team does a great job of, again, giving you kind of the, the quick, uh, top things to know from our most recent research, and I think that it’s good to be data informed, right? For those that want to go a little deeper, we have a resource called Barna Access Plus, and that is a subscription.
There’s a free version, then there’s also a paid version. The free version has lots of assessments that you can deploy amongst, you know, your, um, your, your congregation, and it can help you to better understand those that are in your care. And then the paid version is essentially digital versions of our reports.
And so you can not just get Gen Z volume three, but also one and two in there and see how the research has evolved over the years. So I love, um, I love what I get to be a part of at Barna in that I know that it is meaningful research that is helping. Leaders do their best work.
And so, you know, Barna.com. Please take advantage of it. There are lots of things there for, um, that you may not even know.
If anybody wants to follow up with you, is there any way for them to touch base with you or ask you any further questions?
Cicely Corey: Yeah, sure. I mean, I’m on all of the social medias, uh, on the interwebs, uh, Cicely Cory, C-O-R-R-Y.
If you, look that up on any platform, you’ll find me and, um, yeah, you can learn more about me and my family, and you can also give me a search on the Barna website, and I’m sure that I’ll pop up there as well. Would love to connect with whoever’s interested. So, yeah, well, not whoever, but I would assume that those who are listening would be great folks to connect with.
Paul Turner: Sure, maybe get some boba tips? I, like, I got a lot of, a lot of those. I got a lot of cupcakes. Tips, a lot of things involving food. If you, if you need more tips in that realm, I got you covered for sure.
Paul: Foodies. You heard it go, go and follow right now. You’ll get all the tips. Miss Cicely, so much for being on the show today.
Cicely Corry: And Paul, it’s been great to be with you. Thank you as well.
Be sure to check out all the resources that Barna offers.
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